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a col3 question, How is it used exactly...
Bizness
post Jul 31 2007, 05:22 PM
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I know the col3 is used in the navmesh generation process. My question is, does the engine actually use this mesh ingame? The reason I ask is, I have a complex static that has more than one part (kinda like kubra dam). Each part is a seperate static that makes up one building. Therefore each piece will need a correct col3 to mesh properly. I was wondering if I made one full mesh of the pieces as one, copied and applied it as the col3 for each piece, would it work or would this be an overload on polys? If the game only uses the col3 for navmesh generation and not ingame, I don't see why it wouldn't work but I figured I would ask and see what others thought. Thanks

-Bizness

This post has been edited by Bizness: Jul 31 2007, 05:24 PM


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clivewil
post Jul 31 2007, 08:13 PM
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col3's are a little more exacting than the others, in that they must have no open, double, or intersecting edges anywhere in it - are any faces passing through others? any more than 2 faces sharing one common edge? the easiest analogy is, if you filled your mesh with pressurised smoke, where would it leak out?

the navmesh generator detects any errors in col3's and helpfully makes copies of both the col3 object, and of the offending polys, to make it easier for you to go back into 3ds max and rectify the error

i don't know if a col3 is disregarded by the game engine during play or not; i would hope so - maybe PowerPoker can confirm this?

your col3 can be made up of multiple entities, as long as no single object breaks the above rules i.e. in most maps it is common to place statics next to each other and in some cases intersecting and the navmesh will gen ok, as long as each of those statics col3's are valid. any error at all results in a bounding box being cut out of the mesh where the offending object lies.

one of my navmeshing aids is called a NavGrid, which is an array of tall thin triangular-section poles, to force the nav-gen to build a higher density mesh in some areas. there is about a thousand of these poles - and therefore a thousand entities in my col3 - but it works because none of them intersect with each other.

hope this helps


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korben_dallas
post Jul 31 2007, 10:08 PM
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I would suggest breaking up the Col3 among the pieces so there is no intersection. An alternative is your Col3 can be on only one of those pieces, but you design it as the size/shape of the whole set.

And yes, Col3 is ignored in game. Vehicles don't have a Col3, and bots avoid vehicles just fine.. well, most of the time. :)


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clivewil
post Aug 1 2007, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE
And yes, Col3 is ignored in game. Vehicles don't have a Col3, and bots avoid vehicles just fine

heh i know it doesn't affect gameplay, but does it impact gameplay - is it like backface culling where everything you do requires the engine to sort through it in real time and discard what it doesn't need, or is everything to do with col3's ignored from the outset, and has no performance overhead at all?


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imtheheadhunter
post Aug 1 2007, 01:17 AM
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QUOTE(clivewil @ Aug 1 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]81374[/snapback]

or is everything to do with col3's ignored from the outset, and has no performance overhead at all?


might be, im very sure the navmesh is not loaded when you arent playing SP/coop, and it may be a similar thing with the .col3 meshes.


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SatNav
post Aug 1 2007, 03:40 AM
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you can't draw the col3 ingame in debugmode so i'm guessing it is completely ignored by the engine.
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Bizness
post Aug 2 2007, 11:24 AM
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Thanks for the help biggrin.gif

I guess one way to find out is removing the col3 from the static and running the game (after navmesh generation of course wink.gif).

This post has been edited by Bizness: Aug 2 2007, 11:25 AM


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korben_dallas
post Aug 3 2007, 08:30 AM
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It probably wouldn't hurt for you guys to go through and re-export as many statics as possible. SatNav showed me proof on how much of an improvement RexMan's updated tools do for framerates. And that is the opportune time to create/check the Col3's. :)


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clivewil
post Aug 3 2007, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE
SatNav showed me proof on how much of an improvement RexMan's updated tools do for framerates.

what's the date on those? as far as i knew, he hasn't released any for quite some time, and i'm already using the last version he posted. or do you mean the PoE2 max tools that Seigman released on the ed forum a few days back?


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korben_dallas
post Aug 3 2007, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE(clivewil @ Aug 3 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]81582[/snapback]

what's the date on those? as far as i knew, he hasn't released any for quite some time, and i'm already using the last version he posted. or do you mean the PoE2 max tools that Seigman released on the ed forum a few days back?


Yeah, afaik, RexMan only updated his tools once. That update is what I was referring to.


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Bizness
post Aug 6 2007, 04:55 PM
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I think we have the tools Rexman put out some time ago (I think earlier statics have been re-exported already) . What are the tools Seigman posted?


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mschoeldgen
post Aug 11 2007, 09:24 AM
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They extend on the Doomlab tools. Seigman has included e.g. an automated lod generation script and a few other goodies. The BFEditor forums swallowed his link several times unfortunately, so idk how long this lasts:
http://bfeditor.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10199


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