Why bots can't use the Titan Options

[Dnamro]

Since this gets asked all the time, I am going to lay out the main problems with bots using the titan and make this a stiky.

- For bots to run around in the Titan, it would have to be navmeshed. To be able to navmesh it, the Titan can not be moved the entire game.

- Even with a stationary Titan that was navmeshed, because its up in the sky, the Titan navmesh won't be connected to the land navmesh, and bots won't be able to move between the land navmesh and the Titan navmesh (ignoring the fact that the AI does not like navmesh islands).

- Therefore, the titan would have to be grounded with ramps or stairways to get into it, so it could be properly navmeshed with the land navmesh so the bots could get into it. As a grounded titan, the bottom guns would need to be removed.

- Then there is the problem that there is no known method to let the bots know when the shield is down and they can go into the Titan. To get around that problem, the shield would have to be removed and the Titan health increased to make up for the missing shield.

- As far as bots using the drop pods, if the Titans have to be stationary and navmeshes have to be connected by the Titan being grounded or some sort of stairway, the bots will be able to use that to get into the Titan, so the drop pods are not necessary for the bots anyway.

- Even if the Titans are grounded and navmeshed so bot can go in and out, you still have the issue of getting the bots to attack the door shields and the objectives. In BF2 it is possible to get bots to attack destructable objects, but the inner shields and objectives are not seperate destruable objects. The shields and objectives on the titan would have to be removed or recoded as destructable objects.

As you can see, to get around the problems would require changing the Titan so much, that its not Titan Gameplay anymore. It might be fun, but it's a lot different from multiplayer Titan gameplay. Even with the editor, there are still many obstacles to playing in true Titan mode with bots.

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Alternatively, Just having the Titan's turrets autocontrolled would allow the titans to be used to attack and defend in coop, but bots would not be able to go into it. Autocontrolles will not fire until the shields are dropped. The shields can be removed. If the turrets could be made to be autocontrolled, it could make it very challenging trying to board the Titan. Once on board, the player would be have free reign inside the Titan.

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The Titan Lite coop mod will allow you and bots to capture the missle Silos in titan game mode, which will eventually result in the destruction of one of the team's Titans and the end of the game. The bots do not use the Titans in any way.

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Now it is possible to get bots to fly titans and fire the turrets and have a titan vs titan battle. The problem is that it would be best to be a space map, because the bots like to fly too close to the ground and crash very easily. There is no AI setting to tell the bot they are in a vehicle that is very large, so the bots fly them as if they were much smaller.

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What has been tried so far:

One of the regulars here created the AI mesh that would allow bots to run around on a docked titan. The problem is that the titans are vehicles and the bots want to interact with vehicles, and don't want to run around on them, so they are just confused.

Another regular here, tried to create a stationary titan and was able to get the bots to run around on it using the Wake Island map. But, the textures of the titan have a weird glow when it's converted to a stationary object that he could not figure out. He gave up and moved onto other easier projects.

Unfortunately there are just too many other easier AI projects to work on.

[SatNav]

This post has been edited by SatNav: Apr 1 2009, 02:47 AM

[Dnamro]

From what I understand, the reason that no one has created an AImesh for the Titans is because the BF2/BF2142 model format can not be opened up in any modeling software in order to create the AImesh.

[Xenephone]

I was disappointed to find Titan mode missing from SP as well. But I've got plenty to play with in the meantime .

Apart from Nav meshes maybe there is a simple way to have something involving Titans (like the vid) for the moment. Can bot's simply spawn in the Titan vehicle as part of a squad like they do in BF2 vehicles (I'm new to 2142) ? Then at least they would gun and pilot.

x

[Dnamro]

I added AI templates to them but had to remove the force shields to get the bots to fire the guns in the Titan Lite SP mod. However, in titan lite mod, the titan's engines are disabled, but the bots should be able to fly them. Getting bots to fly and fire the titans weapons would probably be the best idea, but the Titan's guns are primarily for defense and ground attack, and not very effective against other titans. The Rise of Hades mod, has upscaled the titans with some serious weapons for good Titan vs Titan battles, but it does not have sp support. I was going to look into adding AI to Rise of Hades mod, but just been too busy navmeshing recently.

[Xenephone]

I added AI templates to them but had to remove the force shields to get the bots to fire the guns in the Titan Lite SP mod. However, in titan lite mod, the titan's engines are disabled, but the bots should be able to fly them. Getting bots to fly and fire the titans weapons would probably be the best idea, but the Titan's guns are primarily for defense and ground attack, and not very effective against other titans. The Rise of Hades mod, has upscaled the titans with some serious weapons for good Titan vs Titan battles, but it does not have sp support. I was going to look into adding AI to Rise of Hades mod, but just been too busy navmeshing recently.

Well, yes, all in good time, as they say.

Is the video above from Rise of Hades ?

x

[SatNav]

This post has been edited by SatNav: Apr 1 2009, 02:47 AM

[Dnamro]

Port Bavaria would be a good map to test it on by placing a Titan at a docking port, but the port would most likely need an AImesh as well. I would generate a navmesh for it you could create the Aimeshes.

Could you explain how to import BF2/BF2142 into max to create AImeshes in another thread?

[allahhooah]

i was able to get a titan into max by importing a titan.obj from a preopt navmesh. i place a titanexterior i think it was ,
or the playtest. i cant remember what the static was , but it was in bp1 objects.
that vemork map has a meshed titan in it, but i never got around to converting it to qtr.
thats the ticket though , place the playtest in a map , mesh the map , then open preopt. or is it manifold ? i cant remember but it works

[SatNav]

This post has been edited by SatNav: Apr 1 2009, 02:47 AM

[allahhooah]

that pic is a meshed titan exterior.
i meshed a titan_playtest ,the same way which meshed inside and out - i was wondering if u could use the generated obj.
file from preopt- , hit it with multi res to lower the polys a bit , then place that in your mesh- then you just have to line up your static titan in the editor. thats the method i used to get the sweet green circles on that pictured titan.

[clivewil]

then open preopt. or is it manifold ?

manifold is just the terrain. preopt (pre-optimised) is the terrain plus the statics. dunno why they call it a pre-opt, because it's usually post-optimised to buggery and back.

[korben_dallas]

If someone does actually take the time to try to navmesh the Titan, here's a few ideas I had brewing back in the day..

Take the Titan in Max and remove all polies except the rear deck and inner corridors. Then remove the innards in such a way that there is a single narrow non-intersecting path which starts at the rear deck and winds its way around the inner halls such that bots pass by the objectives in order they need to be destroyed. (This will make it easier later on when modding the objectives to get the bots to destroy them, and it will focus the action the way the inside Titan battle is meant to be played.) Lastly, build a simple ramp (ala Clive's BF2 carrier ramp or stairs) such that bots can walk off the rear deck of the Titan. Export this path + ramp as a BF2 (oops BF2142) object with the same center 0/0/0 and size as the Titan so it can be used in the Navmesh process and then replaced with the real Titan for gameplay.

Wow, that sounds easy..

[SatNav]

This post has been edited by SatNav: Apr 1 2009, 02:47 AM

[Dnamro]

Looks awesome!

[SatNav]

This post has been edited by SatNav: Apr 1 2009, 02:48 AM