IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Need more knowledge: how can I let helicopter drift more in the air?, Flightdynamics can be tweaked, how can I let helo drift more?
bluehawk112
post Nov 21 2016, 09:38 AM
Post #1


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



Hi guys, this game simply never dies laugh.gif , because there are always things to improve...I wanted to ask you, if someone could help me tweaking the helicopter flight dynamics in a certain way. Since I have flown real life helicopter simulators already, I am convinced that the flight model of bf2 helicopters is not bad, itīs just basic. The movements of BF2 helicopters are basically corresponding to the input devices such as stick, pedals, pitch lever - and they are basically correct. The biggest difference to reality for me though seems to be the drift behaviour in the air - there is none in BF2. In BF2 you can stop the heloīs forward movement within seconds and entering a tight turn with high speed does not produce any drift to the "outside of the curve" in BF2. In a real helicopter you must initiate your movements early enough (comparable to a tanker ship laugh.gif as an extreme) - like trying to stop the forward movement (you donīt have too much friction/ braking action in the air happy.gif , same applies of course to all other movement directions like sideward movements).


Here you can see what Iīm talking about: see at time 04:43 min and 05:38 min and 07:04 min at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NxxIxi_MHQ


or see here that sliding away at 0:51 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jXkI9I1_4


So, who can help me letting this baby drift? Donīt tell me please the bf2 refractor engine is too limited for this and so on. Most of the so called "limitations" of the bf2 engine truly are limitations in peopleīs heads - there are so many things possible in BF2 that havenīt been expected by most of the people here (like destroyable environment, submarines diving, vehicle winches by helicopters in Georgian Conflict mod and so on...). I just want to add drifting / making deceleration harder to BF2 helicopters.Thanks guys happy.gif

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Nov 22 2016, 02:02 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 14)
clivewil
post Nov 26 2016, 04:50 AM
Post #2


meh.
Group Icon

Group: Mr. Admin
Posts: 2,008,203
Joined: 24-July 07
From: Perth, Western Australia
Member No.: 3,545



i've been thinking about answering you for the past few days, but am not sure where to begin - it depends on what you already know and what you have tried

e.g. do you already know that most of what you need to change is contained in the rotor/tail rotor parts of the code?

the Littlebird* is more drifty than e.g. the AH-1Z so have you looked to see the differences between them? i think there's only a couple of major ones

* i know the AIX one is, i don't remember if the Dice one is or not


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Nov 27 2016, 05:21 PM
Post #3


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (clivewil @ Nov 26 2016, 11:50 AM) *
i've been thinking about answering you for the past few days, but am not sure where to begin - it depends on what you already know and what you have tried

e.g. do you already know that most of what you need to change is contained in the rotor/tail rotor parts of the code?

the Littlebird* is more drifty than e.g. the AH-1Z so have you looked to see the differences between them? i think there's only a couple of major ones

* i know the AIX one is, i don't remember if the Dice one is or not



Hey Clive,
thank you very much for your attention - nice to read your kind comment.

Thank you for your hint -that was what I needed! happy.gif Without having a drifty model, I didnīt know where to look at.
Fine, Iīll take a closer look then to the AIX littlebird, though I almost came to the conclusion, that there are some flight characteristics which cannot simply be reproduced by copy/pace of all engine, weight and main/tailrotor values (maybe they are "model shape" related...), especially if the helo also has wings (you also have to play with their lift value..)
Before I read your post,
I made a couple of experiments changing the horizontal movement dampening values but that wasnīt too successful.
Changing the overall drag value to almost zero seemed to be a little bit more promising but caused the flight controls to become oversensitive and uncontrollable. I tried to counteract this by changing values in the inertia modifier, but in the end, all results were unsatisfactory.
The AIX littlebird will hopefully solve my problem ;-) BTW, do you mean this one?
http://gamebanana.com/skins/74868

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Nov 27 2016, 05:42 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Nov 29 2016, 02:43 PM
Post #4


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Nov 28 2016, 12:21 AM) *
the Littlebird* is more drifty


Thank you for your hint -that was what I needed! happy.gif Without having a drifty model, I didnīt know where to look at.


Hmmm, unfortunately I canīt find anything drifty with the AIX littlebird, see here:

1:56 min - 2:02 min (There is no overshoot regarding the fishing boat)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5K6aceNT8A


or 4:31 min - 4:37 (no recognizable overshoot)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfP9tAGNoA

To be honest, the AIX2 littlebird is pretty much the extreme opposite of what I was searching for. Its flight characteristics are more like the ones of a small scale RC helo with much too quick movements around all axes - and I couldnīt find any drifting. Do you still have another idea, Clive?

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Nov 29 2016, 03:09 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Nov 30 2016, 10:38 AM
Post #5


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Nov 29 2016, 09:43 PM) *
QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Nov 28 2016, 12:21 AM) *
the Littlebird* is more drifty Thank you for your hint -that was what I needed! happy.gif Without having a drifty model, I didnīt know where to look at.
Hmmm, unfortunately I canīt find anything drifty with the AIX littlebird, see here: 1:56 min - 2:02 min (There is no overshoot regarding the fishing boat) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5K6aceNT8A or 4:31 min - 4:37 (no recognizable overshoot) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfP9tAGNoA To be honest, the AIX2 littlebird is pretty much the extreme opposite of what I was searching for. Its flight characteristics are more like the ones of a small scale RC helo with much too quick movements around all axes - and I couldnīt find any drifting. Do you still have another idea, Clive?


AAh, okay, here we might have something that I was looking for:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/920407-battlefield-2/faqs/39166
This guy tells us the following:
b)FLYING AROUND
c)Special Forces Helicopter Movement

The helicopters in SF are HUGE. They handle differently too. Think about

sliding acrosswet ice, let's say you turn right. While you maybe facing

your new direction, you will drift towards the way you were originally

going. So flying these choppers requires more input then the other choppers.

Just give yourself more lateral room to work with when you are fighting.



I should better take a look at the Special Forces helicopters, then..-but I doubt it.

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Nov 30 2016, 03:18 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 3 2016, 08:43 AM
Post #6


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Nov 30 2016, 05:38 PM) *
I should better take a look at the Special Forces helicopters, then..-but I doubt it.


Okay, as I thought, thereīs nothing special with these helicopters either sad.gif - and they donīt drift. Iīm at my start point, again. Can anybody help me?

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Dec 3 2016, 08:47 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 4 2016, 07:17 PM
Post #7


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Dec 3 2016, 03:43 PM) *
Iīm at my start point, again. Can anybody help me?


Come on guys, I canīt believe that people do care about this ridiculous camo stuff for handweapons much more but donīt seem to have any interest in flight physics of helicopters. Seem to be only 16 year old kids here -except clive, dnamro and fastjack - man, that becomes frustrating, and - oh I forgot the admin of course, who will show me again his crybaby emoticon bigthumb.gif

Unfortunately, I canīt find a drifty model, Clive, look at 6:52 min - 6:57 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fcMHg4TJD8

The littlebird reacts immediately to new steering inputs without drift, so I donīt have any hints where to look at...

Somehow, it should be possible. I mean, someone else succeeded in improving the totally unrealistic flight dynamics of bf2 jets, look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjxAiT30mw


Okay guys, hereīs some helo drifting for motivation, see 1:25 min - 1:50 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFH-06QCZsY

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Dec 4 2016, 09:17 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kano
post Dec 4 2016, 08:18 PM
Post #8


Major
Group Icon

Group: BFSP Team
Posts: 216
Joined: 20-April 06
From: Belmont, New Hampshire, USA.
Member No.: 1,704



Look at Desert Conflicts Hind!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 5 2016, 02:52 PM
Post #9


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (kano @ Dec 5 2016, 03:18 AM) *
Look at Desert Conflicts Hind!


Thank you very much, Kano, nice of you - I will happy.gif

Okay, I looked at it, unfortunately it does not drift.

See here, there is no overshoot at all: time 10:46 till 10:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUFN_f4D2jU#t=584.22697

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Jan 21 2017, 06:06 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 23 2016, 02:14 PM
Post #10


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



Hmmm, Iīm not quite sure if you guys know what I mean with "drifting".
Take a look at this video here, I think they implemented "drifting" quite well into the heloīs flight physics-very significant here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq3U2oOOhxk

Obviously, there seems to be no BF2 helo which drifts like that- at least I couldnīt find any... uhm.gif

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Jan 21 2017, 06:07 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
clivewil
post Dec 24 2016, 12:22 PM
Post #11


meh.
Group Icon

Group: Mr. Admin
Posts: 2,008,203
Joined: 24-July 07
From: Perth, Western Australia
Member No.: 3,545



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Dec 24 2016, 04:14 AM) *
there seems to be no BF2 helo which drifts like that

but you should still be able to get pretty close to what i saw in the video.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 25 2016, 06:24 AM
Post #12


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (clivewil @ Dec 24 2016, 07:22 PM) *
QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Dec 24 2016, 04:14 AM) *
there seems to be no BF2 helo which drifts like that

but you should still be able to get pretty close to what i saw in the video.


Hey Clive, thanks for still being in touch laugh.gif . The Unity VR video shows exaggerated drifting, thatīs too much (itīs not realistic either) - but at least, it could show what I mean. The important thing is: youīre drifting towards your "old" direction of movement although you have initiated a steering input (like rolling to a bank angle) already. This means basically, the effect of the new steering input has to be slightly delayed (but no delay to the rolling itself) - depending on how fast youīre moving.
I do know the meaning of the very most stuff thatīs written in the tweak file of a helicopter, I just need some hints where to play with.
Since I couldnīt find a "prototype", Iīd prefer to get some hints where to change values in the tweak file,
thanks guys happy.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
clivewil
post Dec 26 2016, 05:30 AM
Post #13


meh.
Group Icon

Group: Mr. Admin
Posts: 2,008,203
Joined: 24-July 07
From: Perth, Western Australia
Member No.: 3,545



what is that footage from, Arma 3?

in essence you want to massively reduce the drag, and perhaps fiddle with the accel/decel values for the rotorhead rotbundles etc. to more accurately simulate typical control lag - i have always found BF2's helis to be rather twitchy compared to some other sim helis


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bluehawk112
post Dec 26 2016, 05:33 PM
Post #14


Major
****

Group: Soldiers
Posts: 122
Joined: 5-February 14
From: Planet Mars
Member No.: 10,005



QUOTE (clivewil @ Dec 26 2016, 12:30 PM) *
what is that footage from, Arma 3? in essence you want to massively reduce the drag, and perhaps fiddle with the accel/decel values for the rotorhead rotbundles etc. to more accurately simulate typical control lag - i have always found BF2's helis to be rather twitchy compared to some other sim helis


Reducing drag?- definitely yes, this is true, but not the only thing to be done.Changing accel/decel values for the rotorhead rotbundles? - I guess, that wonīt result in desired drifting.As I said, the rolling (to a bank angle) itself must not be delayed. The correct drifting occurs after having established the bank angle already.Changing accel/decel values for the rotorhead rotbundles only accelerates/decelerates the establishing itself of the bank angle.But thank you very much, Clive for not giving up on me laugh.gif - very kind of you

This post has been edited by bluehawk112: Dec 26 2016, 05:35 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
clivewil
post Dec 29 2016, 04:27 AM
Post #15


meh.
Group Icon

Group: Mr. Admin
Posts: 2,008,203
Joined: 24-July 07
From: Perth, Western Australia
Member No.: 3,545



QUOTE (bluehawk112 @ Dec 27 2016, 07:33 AM) *
Changing accel/decel values for the rotorhead rotbundles? - I guess, that wonīt result in desired drifting

no it's nothing to do with drifting, but like i said before i reckon BF2's helis are too twitchy - an IRL heli has a lag of a second or two for most functions to be fully felt

reducing the drag in the tweak probably won't accomplish much, as other items like engines and wings will have their own inherent forces and drag which you will need to counteract - if you get desperate you could add a force object, wing, engine etc. on a rotbundle to change what forces are acting on your heli, but you might create as many problems as you solve (like my hovercraft - 'Skimpy' is extremely drifty, but has a few side issues as a result of that driftiness)

if i get time over the break (50/50 chance) i'll do some experiments of my own and see if i can make some headway for you. depends on what comes up.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th February 2017 - 06:04 PM