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Bots can climb ladders, Can't they?
John Foley
post Nov 7 2016, 08:49 AM
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Look at the bloody picture. Just look at it. I thought they couldn't, but there they were, climbing ladders, merging with each other. Of course, they decided to stop and climb down, but it was still really amazing, wasn't it? So, the question is: What stops them from climbing further?


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clivewil
post Nov 7 2016, 09:29 AM
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meh.
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Dice forces them to execute a jump command if they ever try to climb up a ladder. but in AIX i managed to get them to climb down without any issues - in Daqing Dawn they spawn up on one of the tall smokestacks and some bots climb down, some jump and parachute down. i used a system of breaks and links in the navmesh to ensure that the bots would only ever try to climb down, and not up (any bot trying to walk to the ladder's entry would fall through a break in the navmesh onto a different part of the navmesh, forcing him to make a new plan based on his new position)

not sure how you managed to get those guys going upwards though, that's pretty cool.

i always thought Dice's approach was a very brutal and narrow-minded response which could have easily been solved more elegantly by removing any navmesh from around the ladders. (in fact by using larger col3's on the ladders they could do that automatically - the col3 would carve out the appropriate sized no-go area) - done that way, we modders would have been able to find workarounds or customised solutions involving bots and ladders. instead, Dice pretty much removed it out of the picture for both them and us. a shame, that.


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Dnamro
post Nov 7 2016, 06:15 PM
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maybe 2nd bot was trying to go down, ran into the first one and reversed? In case, since the bot was already on the ladder, the bot may be able to reverse and climb up. The AI check for bots to jump off might be only when it first starts climbing up from a non-climbing position. If this is the case, then it may be possible to have them climb up by setting up a ladder to be started from the middle with an obstacle towards the bottom if the ladder, so that the bot will start to climb down, reverse direction and then climb up. that would be very complicated to pull off.





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Dnamro
post Nov 7 2016, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (clivewil @ Nov 7 2016, 09:29 AM) *
Dice forces them to execute a jump command if they ever try to climb up a ladder. but in AIX i managed to get them to climb down without any issues - in Daqing Dawn they spawn up on one of the tall smokestacks and some bots climb down, some jump and parachute down. i used a system of breaks and links in the navmesh to ensure that the bots would only ever try to climb down, and not up (any bot trying to walk to the ladder's entry would fall through a break in the navmesh onto a different part of the navmesh, forcing him to make a new plan based on his new position)

not sure how you managed to get those guys going upwards though, that's pretty cool.

i always thought Dice's approach was a very brutal and narrow-minded response which could have easily been solved more elegantly by removing any navmesh from around the ladders. (in fact by using larger col3's on the ladders they could do that automatically - the col3 would carve out the appropriate sized no-go area) - done that way, we modders would have been able to find workarounds or customised solutions involving bots and ladders. instead, Dice pretty much removed it out of the picture for both them and us. a shame, that.


Oh, definitely wish that DICE had used a non climbing setting with ladders so that we could add it back in.

I was wondering, if you have a one way down path, do the bots get stuck trying to climb up?



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clivewil
post Nov 7 2016, 07:23 PM
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meh.
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QUOTE (Dnamro @ Nov 8 2016, 08:15 AM) *
The AI check for bots to jump off might be only when it first starts climbing up from a non-climbing position.

the way Outsider explained it, i'm pretty sure that's how it works - a single one-off event that occurs at first contact only

QUOTE
I was wondering, if you have a one way down path, do the bots get stuck trying to climb up?

i don't think any ever tried to, the conditions for that would be really hard to make happen - an enemy bot would have to appear above him on the platform, and as the CP + spawn was owned by his own team, the only way an enemy could get there would be by inadvertantly parachuting and landing up there, i.e. a one in a million fluke


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John Foley
post Nov 8 2016, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE
not sure how you managed to get those guys going upwards though, that's pretty cool.


They were trying to kill me and all they had was their rifle bayonets, so we had a little chase. Come to think of it, I think it's more likely that they were only climbing because they ran into the ladder, not intentionally. That's why they stopped going up. If you meant how I made them climb with all that "breaks" and "links" and "navmesh" and "col3", then I did nothing. Hell, I couldn't understand any of those things". The map was AIX's Operation Static 16 with only changes done to bots and weapons, nothing involving mapping.

This post has been edited by John Foley: Nov 8 2016, 06:44 AM


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Dnamro
post Nov 8 2016, 08:11 PM
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Could it be possible that the last BF update broke the code that was preventing bots from climbing ladders?


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MasterChiefRulZ
post Nov 8 2016, 08:42 PM
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An outside the box solution would be to add an invisible 'elevator vehicle' that bots would ride from top to bottom and vice versa at ladders. Kind of like how old school FPS games (like original Day of Defeat) used to look.


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