Why bots can't use the Titan Options

[Dnamro]

Since this gets asked all the time, I am going to lay out the main problems with bots using the titan and make this a stiky.

- For bots to run around in the Titan, it would have to be navmeshed. To be able to navmesh it, the Titan can not be moved the entire game.

- Even with a stationary Titan that was navmeshed, because its up in the sky, the Titan navmesh won't be connected to the land navmesh, and bots won't be able to move between the land navmesh and the Titan navmesh (ignoring the fact that the AI does not like navmesh islands).

- Therefore, the titan would have to be grounded with ramps or stairways to get into it, so it could be properly navmeshed with the land navmesh so the bots could get into it. As a grounded titan, the bottom guns would need to be removed.

- Then there is the problem that there is no known method to let the bots know when the shield is down and they can go into the Titan. To get around that problem, the shield would have to be removed and the Titan health increased to make up for the missing shield.

- As far as bots using the drop pods, if the Titans have to be stationary and navmeshes have to be connected by the Titan being grounded or some sort of stairway, the bots will be able to use that to get into the Titan, so the drop pods are not necessary for the bots anyway.

- Even if the Titans are grounded and navmeshed so bot can go in and out, you still have the issue of getting the bots to attack the door shields and the objectives. In BF2 it is possible to get bots to attack destructable objects, but the inner shields and objectives are not seperate destruable objects. The shields and objectives on the titan would have to be removed or recoded as destructable objects.

As you can see, to get around the problems would require changing the Titan so much, that its not Titan Gameplay anymore. It might be fun, but it's a lot different from multiplayer Titan gameplay. Even with the editor, there are still many obstacles to playing in true Titan mode with bots.

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Alternatively, Just having the Titan's turrets autocontrolled would allow the titans to be used to attack and defend in coop, but bots would not be able to go into it. Autocontrolles will not fire until the shields are dropped. The shields can be removed. If the turrets could be made to be autocontrolled, it could make it very challenging trying to board the Titan. Once on board, the player would be have free reign inside the Titan.

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The Titan Lite coop mod will allow you and bots to capture the missle Silos in titan game mode, which will eventually result in the destruction of one of the team's Titans and the end of the game. The bots do not use the Titans in any way.

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Now it is possible to get bots to fly titans and fire the turrets and have a titan vs titan battle. The problem is that it would be best to be a space map, because the bots like to fly too close to the ground and crash very easily. There is no AI setting to tell the bot they are in a vehicle that is very large, so the bots fly them as if they were much smaller.

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What has been tried so far:

One of the regulars here created the AI mesh that would allow bots to run around on a docked titan. The problem is that the titans are vehicles and the bots want to interact with vehicles, and don't want to run around on them, so they are just confused.

Another regular here, tried to create a stationary titan and was able to get the bots to run around on it using the Wake Island map. But, the textures of the titan have a weird glow when it's converted to a stationary object that he could not figure out. He gave up and moved onto other easier projects.

Unfortunately there are just too many other easier AI projects to work on.

[superj358]

cool this might stop treads that say"i found a bug in titan lite2...the bots dont youse the titan"

and i learned something from this

[korben_dallas]

Here's a lengthy disucssion on the topic, with some theoretical ideas for overcoming the various obstacles. The Titans would have to be immobile, that is for certain.

http://battlefieldsingleplayer.planetbattl...ost&p=59167

[Dnamro]

The only issue convered in that discussion that I did not address was bots using drop pods, but if the Titans have to be stationary and navmeshes have to be connected by the Titan being grounded or some sort of stairway, the bots will be able to use that to get into the Titan, so the drop pods are not necessary for the bots anyway.

I updated the first post to address it.

[korben_dallas]

Back when we were looking at rooftop spawns, Clive devised a clever method to connect the navmesh such that bots would only be able to travel one-way. Maybe if he's sees this he'll post a pic of it, since I can't really explain it w/ words. It's a good way to avoid stuck bots and potential suicide or even CTD. The point being that the Titan would still have to be immobile but not have to be physically connected to the ground. You could potentially use a lift (triggers worked in BF2, should work in BF2142), spawn points, the drop pod weapon idea (pod firing from the ground), or dropship. There are some caveats to all this, but I think it can be workable.. if we ever get a 2142 Editor.

[Recruit_clivewil_*]

Maybe if he's sees this he'll post a pic of it, since I can't really explain it w/ words.

LOL if you think a pic will make it easier to understand, here you go - this is the navmesh from my racetrack. the theory behind it was explained in another titan sp thread


i couldn't find the other navmesh pic i was looking for, but here's one of the results of it - bots shooting the dam on Fushe Pass

There are some caveats to all this, but I think it can be workable.. if we ever get a 2142 Editor.

now that there is a sv.allowTitanMovement 0 command it will make things a bit easier. i tried to re-install 2142 a few weeks back - even with a clean install, all i could get from it is a ctd and i haven't bothered again since

i'm guessing a dedicated BF2142 editor might not even be needed; everything for Titan SP should be achievable with the current ed, a text ed, and Rexman's tools (after all, we're only modifying, not creating something new)

[Veinguard]

Somehow I was already thinking this same thing only in a simple form...

"Bots Won't Be Able To Use The Titan."

[MasterChiefRulZ]

Personally I think the best solution would be ...

* Stationary titans that are navmeshed.
* Have rockets like in Titan Lite.
* Once Shields are down have new spawns appear on titan for both teams (invading team spawn on outside deck, defending team spawn in interior).

Is it possible to have spawn points appear once an objective is accomplished (such as taking down the shields of a titan)? Personally I think this would be the best/least fuss way, if it's possible.

[KH BG LX]

MasterChiefRulZ

* Once Shields are down have new spawns appear on titan for both teams (invading team spawn on outside deck, defending team spawn in interior).

This idea turns complicated into just simplicity...

I also had thought why cant we just have it exactly like titan lite II but just have permenent bots protecting the titans at all times (sheilds up / sheilds down ) doesnt matter

exactly like titan lite II = bots running around capping silos / flags, killing each other (reducing enemy titan sheilds and hull ) as normal

with added spawns for permenent defending *Titan bots with no attacking bots if creating spawns for attackers aint possible. and just try to taking down an enemy Titan yourself...

Maybe able to be squad leader and squad members may be able to spawn off your back.. this may be a possilbe way to incorperate an entire squad to attack a Titan once your inside..

Just a suggestion.. like umm

2 bots protecting entry in each vent - top - on death say spawning from top rear deck
2 - 3 bots protecting each console - on death spawning from behind barriers
4 - 6 bots protecting the core - on death spawning from behind barriers

I know theres a few less bots on the ground but cant we just up the bot numbers to compinsate for the permenent titan bots..?

Is this or is this not a complicated task as mentioned in the 1st post..?

I know it aint quite like multiplayer Titan mod but is this idea as close as we could get ? or even this not possible..?

This post has been edited by KH BG LX: Jul 3 2007, 05:18 PM

[Dnamro]

I think we are getting overly complicated. I propose just focusing on getting the bots to fight aboard a Titan. I started a new thread to discuss it:
http://battlefieldsingleplayer.planetbattl...?showtopic=8040

[msixp_k7]

I like it! Come on people breath new life into this game! With all the talleted people on this forum it can an will happen

[DEVILMAN1]

I like it! Come on people breath new life into this game! With all the talleted people on this forum it can an will happen

Dream,Believe,Create,Achieve

[Dnamro]

In the Conflict 2142 mod, in the map route 66, just off the highway is a static Titan sitting on the top of a hill. If you take an aircraft and land on top of the titan, you will land on the invisible shield. This supports my suspicion that the AI won't fire the Titan weapons because of the shield. Its also probably why the enemy aircraft won't fire on it either.

Taking a look at the code for the forefield, I found that it does have a collison mesh.

I had always assumed that the forceshield was spawned, but it appears to be actually part of the ship. So, when the forceshield takes damage, the Titan takes the same damage. The forceshield is destroyed when the Titan takes a certain level of damage. So, without a shield, the only disavantage is that the enemy can board the Titan when ever they want. But if the turrets are set to autofire, it should make it difficult.

But without a shield, bots and autocontrollers should be able to fire the Titan weapons, and the enemy bots should be able to fire back.

Has anyone tried to remove the forceshield yet?

Also, I don't know what the code is that triggers titan game mode to end once a Team's Titan is destroyed. Maybe it's hardcoded to the Titan vehicle names?

[FFOLKES]

Yes. See my post over at TotalBF2142.

http://bf2142.totalgamingnetwork.com/forum...3690&page=3

To Remove Exterior Shields from Titan:

Go to:
C:\Program Files\Electronic Arts\Battlefield 2142\mods\YourMod\Objects\Vehicles_server.zip\eu_titan
C:\Program Files\Electronic Arts\Battlefield 2142\mods\YourMod\Objects\Vehicles_server.zip\as_titan

Edit with Notepad:
eu_forcefield.tweak
eu_forcefield_big.tweak
as_titan_forcefield.tweak
as_titan_vb_shield.tweak

Change Code:
GeometryTemplate.isTitanExterior 0
ObjectTemplate.hasCollisionPhysics 0

This post has been edited by FFOLKES: Sep 6 2007, 10:29 PM

[Dnamro]

Thanks for the info. So, have you tested the Titan with bots without shields? Can the bots fire the turrets? Will the enemy bots attack the Titans?